GMG versus Black Magic from Serendipy

[loustique20]

We are looking to expand our shop by adding 3 more 7900 Eson. We are actually using GMG ColorProof 4.5 for our 6 Epson 7800.
Black magic was called to my attention. I was told it was way cheaper and as effective as GMG.
I wanted to know if any of you have any experience, good or bad, with Black Magic, and if it as great as my contact told me!
Thanks all!
Karine

[Hopkins Printing]

Hi loustique20,

We have BlackMagic and like it pretty well. So far, every issue we have had with it was fixed with a settings or preference tweak. The only thing I can say from a new user perspective is that the GUI might be a little overwhelming at first. If you go with it, the guy who will likely be involved in the install is very knowledgeable!

All the best,
Jon Morgan
Hopkins Printing

[whoami]

Hello,

I'm curious with what you decided to go with. We used GMG for a while for 1 printer and I really hated it. We threw that rip away and decided to use BlackMagic. We are now driving 9 printers with 1 BlackMagic rip at no extra cost per printer. We paid around 3 grand for it and it paid for itself 100 times over. We have it running on a 8 core MacPro though, which cost more than the rip software itself. The UI isn't very intuitive but once you get a couple of hours of training and a couple of days of getting to know it I think it's a great rip. I would pay triple its price if I were in need of another license.

-Adam

[Ian Mackenzie]

Karime -

(Caveat.....my compnay was the original GMG distributor in the US from 2003-2006. We are currently EFI's largest global distributor and also operate our own inkjet converting facility.)

we see all RIPs in 2009 as being extremely similar. while maybe not obvious at first, there are subtleties that factor into decisions like the one you are facing now. changing RIPs can be a huge undertaking as there are many factors to consider:

- new media profiles
- training/support
- compatability with your clients and printers
- vendor longevity, etc.
- core RIP technology (PS vs. clone)

GMG is an excellent product - especially in its new version 5 flavor. You have already passed the first hurdle with GMG.....getting it installed.....as it is (relatively speaking) one of the more complex RIPs out there. That being said, once you get it "dialed in", it works and is extremely stable. BUT....it does have a niche and that is squarely in contract inkjet proofing for litho and packaging.

Going forward, i see the following issues as being important in RIP decisions:

1. Any new RIP simply must have the Adobe PDF Print Engine kernel in it. GMG and EFI have this today, as well as an alternate kernel that can run as weel. (GMG is some "ghosscript" while EFI is Adobe CPSI).
This is important mainly because of the rapid adoption of: PDF, JDF, CS3/4. A PDF Print Engine will be less prone to processing errors with complex blends, transparencies and spot colors.
2. If it aint client/sever architecture, why should I buy it....? Come on now.....why do we need more servers on the production floor? Give me a server to put in a rack and I will show you clients on the shop floor that simply run smoother with less clutter and better security.
3. How many printers can it drive from one license? 9 printers like someone says above.....?....well, that might work for some but they aint all running at once I assure you.
what works best is when a RIP can actually take advantage of a quad processor and actually do 4 things at once. that = productivity.
4. Support.....sadly, RIPs are the most support intensive element of an enetrprise-class inkjet system. That's why most RIp compnaies sell media. without that revenue annuity, RIPs would be a loser for all vendors and dealers. Most dealers do a hack job and let the vendor do all the presales and support.
5. Media strategy - does your RIP vendor lock you into their paper strategy? many do....even GMG....and their paper lists for $1.45 sq.ft; almost 50% higher than comparable brands.
6. Is your dealer going to cut you a deal?
7. Does your RIP goive you and PR mileage at agencies and printers? GMG, CGS and EFI do.....Blackmagic...?....maybe in the newspaper world. as for photo market.....not so much.

ALL RIPs, with the correct profiling, can ALL produce consistent high quality results. The IPA Shoot-outs proved that 4 years in a row.

You need to answer some questions to get better info and come to a better decision. It will also allow you to buy from a position of strength.

1. How many printers do you intend to drive?
2. How much paper do you use per month?
3. How many operators want to use the sytem?

Epson has OEMed EFI Colorproof XF for a reason.

It has been optimized to drive the new 7900 and 9900 better than all others. This is not puffery, this is fact. There will be those who will not want to realize this as their companies wer bidding on the same OEM contract and lost to EFI.

Please let me know if you would like any specific info.
Good luck...
Ian

[loustique20]

Hi Ian,
Thank you for all the info, and all the good advices.
But I was a bit lost in the tech info!

Any new RIP simply must have the Adobe PDF Print Engine kernel in it.

What does it mean?
Also, we want to keep our GMG (we are happy with it, now that we know how to use it!!), but we were thinking to use the other RIP in parallel for the newer Epson. Is it recommended? Or I am looking for trouble?
We are a prepress shop, mainly printing fashion commercial jobs. Color consistency and quality is our top priority.
Karine

[Ian Mackenzie]

Karine -

(Est-ce que vous etes francaise?)

The Adobe PDF Print Engine is the latest version of Adobe's RIP platform that is licensed to companies like EFI, etc. It will do a more consistent job when processing PDF files or native CS3/4 files.

There have always been 2 basic RIP platforms for inkjet and CTP:

1. True Adobe Postscript
2. "Clones" that are usually based on a Global Graphics or "JAWS" implementation.

GMG, up until v5.0, used a clone RIP.
In their latest version, they (GMG) offer both.

as for your latest decsion....well, you will not go wrong with either RIP - GMG or EFI.
To drive multiple 7900 or 9900s, the EFI RIP will be much less expensive and, yes, Epson did choose EFI as a RIP partner when they developed the new 900 series printers. However, the Epson version of the EFI RIP contains a very complex configuration that is overkill for 95% of the customers out there.

You can go to our web site to see an overview demo of an EFI RIP.

Chromaticity | EFI Colorproof™ XF 4.0

We also have online training for RIPs and profiles for all RIPs for our paper. We have about 40 GMG users that use our paper today and they save over 45% vs. GMG.

[whoami]

Well if you are looking for ease of use then BlackMagic is probably not as user friendly as it should be. If you are looking for an inexpensive rip that has excellent color control and that will drive all your printers with no problem then I would go with BlackMagic 3K plus an iMac 1200 that 4200 dollars. We installed BlackMagic at one of our customers who doesn't know too much about rips and he had a really hard time with it for about 2 months. We went down to his place and trained him and got him familiar with the rip and he has not complained ever since.

The main things to watch out for using BlackMagic is that it does not handle files with transparencies very well. We just send an X1a to get around this. It has a few issues with gradients. It has accurate spot color duplication but it does require that the separation be named exactly the same as in the color library.

If you have someone willing to do the initial set up then you won't have to touch the rip for a few months before you have to recalibrate.

GOOD LUCK!!

[Ian Mackenzie]

for point of reference......

an EFI Fiery XF RIP with 3 printer drivers can be had for about $3K.
all ICC profiles for media can be downloaded. all you do is an iteration on site.
install cam be done via webex. We have done hundreds that way.
we also have 50 online learning modules that customers can use at their own pace.

our intent is to "de-mystify" RIPs, installs, training, etc.

[loustique20]

Hi Whoami

The main things to watch out for using BlackMagic is that it does not handle files with transparencies very well. We just send an X1a to get around this. It has a few issues with gradients. It has accurate spot color duplication but it does require that the separation be named exactly the same as in the color library.

What kind of gradients? Will it handle well gradients made in photoshop (ie background, skin...)? We do not do packaging or spot color (or ever so rarely)

[tbuccini]

Hi Karine,

I generally just lurk here and don't usually post much on the boards, but I feel a bit compelled to clear a few things up that might help you. Being a Vendor, I will try to refrain from intentionally marketing our industry leading "ProofLine Inket Media's."

I will start by debunking the "Myth" of the need for an Adobe CPSI. There are many benefits to be had by not paying royalties to Adobe. One might even quickly conclude that if your not using Adobe, you are behind the times, I couldn't disagree more.

- If you are stuck with an Adobe core, you are dependent on them to fix a problem. You and your RIP manufacturer are left hanging till 1. They determine it is a problem and 2. they decide to fix it.

- Up until recently the Adobe CPSI RIP most inkjet guys were using processed 1 file at a time. BlackMagic will do 2X per core. Having 16 files RIP simultaneously on 1 box is nice when a user sends a 200+ multipage .pdf and clogs most other RIP's. If 16 is not enough, add a slave for about 1/3 the price and offload the processes on another box... Mac, PC, Linux. Runs the same on all three.

- If your processing Post ripped files, IE: 1-bit's, Rampage, Nexus, etc., this so called "Clone engine" does them 2-4X as fast as the competition.

- Blends, transparencies, oh my... The latest 16 bit version of the RIP does all of this stuff just fine. If we run into a bug, we pick up the Bat phone and talk directly with the developers. Overnight fixes are pretty routine if needed.

- 1 printer, 2 printer, 3 printer, 4. Pick a family with Blackmagic and thats what you get. Unlimited, from a 3800 to a GS6000, and everything in between. What does this mean. This means that if your hardware can support it, your printing to a bank of printers anywhere in the world that's connected to you. Yes, print to them ALL at the same time. Adobe charges per/device. This is also probably the same reason most of these RIP's don't offer soft-proofing... as they haven't figured out how to charge you for it.

On to the next "Myth" of Most inkjet RIP's are basically the same. Serendipity has been developing their own drivers for a long time and has lead the pack with N-Color support before it existed on any Epson. While some people may be lead to believe that Epson has been working exclusively with EFI to develop the x900 series, I kinda chuckle knowing that BlackMagic was driving it before anyone. I am however, surprised to see how much of the competition has rolled over and submitted 100% to the Epson SDK methodology, especially in this niche market. Ask to see a 200LPI dot proof and you'll know exactly what I am talking about.

-While our testing has only been done with our fantastic OBA FREE, Fogra Certified media, I can tell you that if your RIP is using this new Epson "black Box" you are using upwards of 30%+ more ink than you would be with BlackMagic. Forget the price of media, at $300/cart x11 carts on a x900 printer... you do the math.

- Most Rip's probably don't allow you to import a template of your imposition, and de-impose to a laser printer and or a smaller inkjet printer to get just the proofs you want.

- Most Rip's don't allow you to use special inks in the printer to create film positives/negatives and proof with the same printer.

- Most Rip's won't let you drive the new x900 printers in true CMYK mode, This is a problem if you need to get them to match existing x880 printers.

Ok, Last one and I have to get back to work. "Support". Since becoming a distributor for Serendipity, my job is very similar to that of that of the Maytag repair guy. Things just work. In fact, selling upgrades to someone who is completely happy can be tough. Every system we sell with our media is guaranteed to pass any current printing standard. We provide dealer training and support with all of the necessary paper profiles. We have even turned away dealers that could not commit to the training requirements to guarantee our 100% successful install record.

Anyhow, I hope I straighten out some of the misconceptions about Blackmagic.