GMG versus Black Magic from Serendipy

[Ian Mackenzie]

There are also many "real reasons" why some RIPs have a 2% market share and others have a 30%+ market share.....;-)

All of the main RIP vendors (GMG, CGS, EFI) have support offices in the US.
While just "picking up the phone" may sound great in a forum thread, in reality, the other end of that phone may be in another hemisphere.

Just to clarify.....RIP roayalties to Adobe cost RIP vendors less than the price of a discounted 13" roll of Proofline paper....;-) As Adobe also tends to have other products that creative professionals use (CS, Acrobat, etc.), it sounds a little odd when their RIP implementations are questioned - especially when some vendors provide 2 flavors of RIPs with the same package - Adobe PDF and clone or Adobe CPSI. (GMG and EFI)There are reasons why Kodak, EFI, Agfa and others rely on Adobe technology.

There are also real reasons why Epson has chosen to OEM the EFI product and not one of the clone RIPs for the 900 series. It might be nice to think that a boutique RIP compnay down under has a leg-up on the global incumbents for drivers. In fact, just imagining that fills me with optimism and glee.......;-)

Sadly, it's just not the case. Driver technology makes or breaks RIP implementations.
Although they (Epson) have been successful with Colorburst, it is only a $250 option ($1000 on the GS6000) and certainly cannot compete with entrprise RIPs to drive multiple printers.

"If your processing Post ripped files, IE: 1-bit's, Rampage, Nexus, etc., this so called "Clone engine" does them 2-4X as fast as the competition."

This statement is strange and would require objective data to substantiate. Last I heard of any RIP speed debate, it was 1997....;-) That horse is in the barn.

It is 2009. RIPs need to be:

- simple to install (can be done remotely)
- simple to train (online curriculum)
- simple to use (for everyone)
- simple to support (doesnt matter if it's adobe or clone, these OEMs arent a factor in support.)
- open and willing to use all medias

Contrary to what some distributors may choose to believe, the main reason why many CTP and inkjet RIP suppliers chose clones in the past had more to do with coding and programming that it did with price or feature set. JAWS and Harlequin RIPs had a nice code-set that could be easily programmed. With Adobe CPSI, you needed serious programmers who knew the ins and outs of the Adobe kernel.

all that has changed with the PDF Print engine. In fact, it is so easy to implement, I would guess that you will see others switch to it just like GMG did. This will require RIP compnaies to do almost a total re-write from the clone code.

Troy, when do you think CGS will make that move?
In order to support FGS USA, that may be mandatory as Screen has certainly used the new platform successfully.

[edwinb]

To answer your question of GMG versus BlackMagic I think there are a few suggestions here but nothing that would swing your decision.
Could you install both on free trial and test one against the other? GMG Dealers can give a trial I know and if you use the oem media there is no calibration issues with gmg and i assume Blackmagic also. after your test switching to a cheaper or common media with your other printers will not be wasted effort.
I would be interested in the results if you do because the gmg is well known for production stability and you use it so Blackmagic has something to beat.
Edwin

[ASM]

Let's help the lady and not get bogged down in the decade-old infighting over RIPs eh?
Ma'am you have GMG ColorProof 4.5. Upgrade to 5 and consider the ColorServer version if you are adding printers. You know how to use it, you have a relationship with the reseller and tech support and GMG is right up there at the top on color accuracy and can edit individual colours without skewing the ICC profile.
Color is critical, you say, and you won't find better when it comes to color accuracy than GMG, who wrote the original CM for the Iris proofer back in the 90s. The only equal I'd say is CGS Oris ColorTuner.

Blackmagic is a fantastic Rip and the de-imposition feature is to die for - proof a whole magazine into a stapled 'dummy' from the imposed files. But it promotes itself mainly as a dot proof and I'm sorry; when dot proofing on BM, you can kiss your fractional color accuracy goodbye. It's okay on contone.

And no, I have no affiliations to GMG. I actually am more alligned to EFI's ColorProof XF - aka Best Rip once upon a time. It's great for the apps I'm involved in but this lady needs to make a decision good for her business and then move on. I'd go GMG.

[Ian Mackenzie]

ASM, I couldnt agree more.
We are the distributor for EFI in the US and we do not want to be commercial at all here.
I also worked at EFI for 8 years and want to keep these posts narrowed in on helping those who seek guidance, not commercials.

[stargate]

Karine,

I used to have BlackMagic and after research and testing I switched to GMG. BlacMagic interface is much harder to use when you compare to gmg o5 and with gmg you can have multiple printers look the same. Try to do this with BlackMagic. BlackMagic is cheaper than any of the rips because you just pay once for "epson license" that's true. BlackMagic has great screened proofs also but it is not so great in contone proofing and it is geared towards newspaper industry, impositions and softproofing. The only gmg competitor in your case is CGS and CGS as gmg has per printer license fee. As someone mentioned before gmg is great system with great support in USA out of Boston not in Australia. New gmg version 5 is even better and easier.

Derek

[tbuccini]

ASM, I couldnt agree more.
we do not want to be commercial at all here.

Fell free to use that edit button and delete your previous sale pitch then.

Thanks for jumping in AMS, I don't have all day to respond to all that.

Back to the original topic:
It has been pointed out that all the RIP's can get you to color. The problem I see is that the ink-sets are radically different. While many of the standard targets/images used in the industry don't immediately show you this, you will realize it on the first job you get burned on. Last I heard, GMG does not give you the tools to create custom MX-3's for N-color devices like the x900. Unless you plan to use their media, your hands will be tied to to this non-editable (MX-C). Someone correct me if I am wrong. I have however, verified this on the HP's with CMYKRGB.

If GMG has a custom MX3 and can drive the printer in CMYK only mode you will be much better off IMO getting these x900 printers to match the x800 printers. If GMG relies on the Epson "black box" you will start to see the problem most other RIP vendors are seeing. You can linearize CMYK and not CMYK-OG.

Blackmagic will let you do both. You can get your new printers aligned to the old ones and not have your hands tied. Plus, by being able to actually linearize your OG, you can guarantee consistency.

If you really want to make things trick, you can help me on a pet project which puts "Vivid Magenta" in the x800 printer making it further consistent with the x880 and x900 printers.
The x800 Magenta is RED. The x880/x900 Magenta is, well Magenta.

Lastly, what file format are you using and what is your front end. The reason I ask is that if you are using pre-ripped data, you might see huge benefits in speed and have guaranteed file integrity. For front ends that can provide unscreened ripped data this is a big plus. The general consensus on dot-proofs is they don't match as well as contone. This is the case with all Halftone/Dot RIP's including the High-end $100K+ ones that everyone hangs there hats on.

Anyhow, I hope this info helps you make an informed decision. Like most others, we do offer demo's and remote support/setup. We can also provide custom printed samples.

[whoami]

Hi Whoami



What kind of gradients? Will it handle well gradients made in photoshop (ie background, skin...)? We do not do packaging or spot color (or ever so rarely)

It will handle gradients from Photoshop great!! In fact, if you know what you're doing, you will get really smooth transitions. It's the vector gradients that come from indesign or illustrator that give it problems. I hear that BlackMagic 4 is coming out soon. Maybe they have fixed the few issues that they do have, and hopefully haven't introduced new ones.

-whoami?

[tbuccini]

Karine,
I used to have BlackMagic and after research and testing I switched to GMG. BlacMagic interface is much harder to use when you compare to gmg o5 and with gmg you can have multiple printers look the same. Try to do this with BlackMagic.
Derek

From a user stand point, the interface is very easy to use. Not sure what version you had, but it is completely customizable to fit your needs. If you are speaking about the workbench side of things, then yes, it is much more complex. The tools are endless. But, what most people don't realize is that these tools are not available on other RIP's. These are the tools that allow you to create a perfect Printer/Paper/Ink combination. To keep things easier, GMG and others have not opened this up. This can be both good and bad.

Something these tools do in-particular is allow you to adjust for printhead variation/degradation over time. This is critical for aligning a pool of printers without iterating adding a metameric deviation. This allows for a perfect visual match, followed by Delta E's below device consistency.

BlackMagic has great screened proofs also but it is not so great in contone proofing and it is geared towards newspaper industry, impositions and softproofing.
Derek

I would have to disagree with you on the contone quality and point you back to past IPA proofing roundups as well as any system we have sold with the built in verification tools. There are many variables that can cause bad quality and a blanket statement of "not so good" really isn't fair without an explanation.

The only gmg competitor in your case is CGS and CGS as gmg has per printer license fee. As someone mentioned before gmg is great system with great support in USA out of Boston not in Australia. New gmg version 5 is even better and easier.
Derek

Could you explain how CGS would be her only other option? Serendipity Support is done here in the U.S., I am not sure where the misconception came about. In the event that a developer needs to get involved, we still have all the normal tools that keep people going these days. Remote support, VOIP, Cars, planes, etc. My apologies for your experience with the product being anything less than perfect. Unfortunately, your purchase didn't go through our network.

[edwinb]

Something these tools do in-particular is allow you to adjust for printhead variation/degradation over time. .

as all the other rips mentioned here do?

edwin

[loustique20]

Hi everybody, I am pleasantly amazed by all the wonderful help and advises I received. You guys rock! I can see that some of you are pro GMG, EFI or Black Magic. It seems that all those RIP are doing great jobs. So because of the overwhelming responses, I wanted to ask a couple of questions and add clarifications from my part.

interface: Ease of use for a new RIP is not my top priority, as I am used to GMG 4.0, which I think was never user-friendly and counter intuitive. But I agree with some of you, I would enjoy an easy to use RIP for once.

Profile/media: My only problem with GMG is that it takes a lot of time to profile a new paper (that is not GMG media), and create new MX4 and 5. My clients are mainly fashion photographers, and ad agencies that cater to fashion magazine (and they have their little preferred media). They all want this and that, which make my life difficult. How fast, realistically, can other RIP create profile media, and align to printing standards?

Standards: So I need to be with all the classic printing standards, as well as being super color consistent for long periods of time. Dot proofing (especially in Europe) is disappearing fast. Will the US follow this trend soon? How the others RIPs handling the new printing standards?

matching: If I go with another RIP, how hard will it be to linearized to my ongoing GMG profiles/settings? Especially that the 7900 series have the OG inks? Will others RIPs disregard those 2 colors for the dot proofing?

verification: I know that each RIP have the option to verify proof (ProofControl, EFI Verifier...). I already have ProofControl, would I need to get a new one if using another RIP?

Demo: my vendors are willing to let me have a demo of Black Magic, EFI (and CGS if I wanted to, but I had some experience with them that didn't end well few years back), and I'am sure that GMG will let me try 5.0 for free if I ask nicely.

What do you think? Makes sense?
MERCI!!

Karine