JetPlate

[mbolles]

I been looking at various CTPs. Most are variations of Thermal or Violet.
Another CTP being shown at Graph Expo was JetPlate. I have tested the plates and they seem to work fine. The cost is much less.
When I mention the name JetPlate to others I get all kinds of bad opinions but all are based on hearsay not on actual experience. It almost seems as if the new kid is getting picked on for being different.
Does any one have first hand experience with JetPlate?

[DonBlock]

If you are looking at that technology, you would be better off considering the iCTP from Glunz & Jensen. It is a better quality machine, not to mention that the rumor is that JetPlate has gone through bankruptcy more than once. This would make me wonder about future support.

[**hansonian**]

"If you are looking at that technology, you would be better off considering the iCTP from Glunz & Jensen."

What makes their model better? The best I can tell is their technology is behind the JetPlate machines and they tie you into using their materials. Please educate me on this one.

If it sounds like I'm biased towards JetPlate, I am. The shop I work for is looking to upgrade to a newer "entry level" CTP setup (which the JetPlate and Glunz & Jensen models both fall into). I've had a opportunity to tour the JetPlate facility and it doesn't look to me that they are going anywhere anytime soon. If anything they're expanding to service more of the globe. I would suggest calling both JetPlate and G&J and asking for demo plates from both and compare them side by side. Also, compare the times it takes both machines to make your plates and what types of materials you're allowed to use with them.

From my personal dealings with both companies, JetPlate was more than accommodating to my request for trial plates and they answered any and all my questions, whereas G&J wouldn't provide a set of demo plates and were vague on the majority of answers they did give me (which wasn't a lot). I could have caught G&J on a bad day, I'm in no way saying they're a bad company, I'm saying don't dismiss JetPlate until you've compared the products side by side (or as close as you can).

[DonBlock]

G&J will provide what ever you need, but you should go through a dealer to help the process along. The technology is the same, however if you look at the 2 machines and how the jobs are processed not to mention the extra care G&J have gone though to make sure you have good registration. With G&J being a global manufacturer of many products in our industry I have more faith in the product line as well as support for the product.

Again, G&J are not set up to sell direct to customers so when you request information you may not be talking to the right individual.

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

I have ran tests against both Jetplate and iCtP. We found the iCTP to print a little cleaner and crisper. Another benefit on the iCtP is that there are no chemical in the processing. Jetplate uses the conventional Kodak Craftsman plate, while iCtP uses a nonphotosensitive aluminum plate, I'm not sure where else to get these except from G&J.

For other CTP systems I would also recommend looking into the more expensive but not outrageous violet systems from ECRM or Printware. You will need a yellow safe light area but registration and run lengths will be longer then inkjet systems. ECRM is a flatbed while the Printware uses curved drum technology which they claim to be better for registration, both are also Chem-free.

We tested Printware against the 2 inkjet systems and found it to be the best but did not test ECRM in the mix.

[DonBlock]

Of course the Laser to emulsion plate is better, By the way the ECRM does a great job. The obvious is the price and required printing for the plate. They each have their market and should be evaluated accordingly.

[DonBlock]

A quick update to any who are interested. We just installed an iCTP Platewriter 2400 and it works perfectly. The customer loved the plates on press and how easy the Platewriter is to operate and maintain. This is a great platesetter when purchased and used as intended ie.. not to replace high end color. We have also had no problems getting sample plates from G&J for our customers which as of now include 5 more seriously considering purchasing it.

Do your research, but keep an open mind.....

[discountprinting]

Another system you should take a good look at is Technova's Polijet or Metijet, the later of the 2 being the newest. The Polijet system uses the same Epson inkjet technology that both Jetplate & iCTP use, only their plates are designed to work with Epson printers (4880, 7880 & 9880) right out of the box using Epson's Ultrachrome K3 inks as the imaging fluid rather than a proprietary aftermarket fluid. This means you can use the Epson as your proofing printer as well as your platesetter. The cost is much less than both Jetplate & iCTP, for the whole system which includes your choice of base machine depending on width of plates, the RIP computer with software, and the post processing curing unit. The Metijet metal plate version is relatively new so I don't know as much about it except that the plate run length is 75,000 vs. about 20,000. Imaging quality is very good on either with the Epson heads at 2880x1440 dpi, capable of 150lpi easy. But that is just my 2 cents.

There always seems to be criticism on inkjet CTP systems. I think this is mostly based on when inkjet ctp was new, but over the years it has been refined to produce quality plates that in my opinion rival conventional ctp systems at the same line screens when viewed by the naked eye, and it really takes a loop to make any real discernible differences in quality. So if you have to look at it with a loupe to tell the difference I think the quality is good enough to justify the savings.

[FlaPrntr]

I would suggest you look long and hard at other systems before purchasing a JetPlate. I bought the 4 up system 5 years ago and have nothing but problems, and eventually had to just give up and put the system in the back of the shop where it is collecting dust.

The problem with the JetPlate is developing the plate after it is imaged. If the temperatures in the processor aren't perfect, the plate either brakes down after just a few impressions (if the temps are too cool) or the background tones (temps too high). They (JetPlate) blames it on the power fluctuation. Their processor (and I have the 2nd, new and improved model) doesn't control temp with thermostats.

We wasted over 4 years of trial and error and waited for their new processor to come out before giving up. The trial plates they send you may work fine because they are made in a very controlled environment, but duplicating those conditions in a production environment is impossible in my experience.

The other problems is you must use a chemical process in the plate developement. The Kodak plates you must use are a subtractive plate. On the other hand the Glunz & Jenson plates don't use a subtractive plate and they are simply rinsed with water and then gummed.

I was making plates on the JetPlate for a 29" press and it took over 30 minutes to image and process each plate. That is a lot of down time if you need a plate while the pressman is waiting.

[iCtP]

"If you are looking at that technology, you would be better off considering the iCTP from Glunz & Jensen."

What makes their model better? The best I can tell is their technology is behind the JetPlate machines and they tie you into using their materials. Please educate me on this one.

If it sounds like I'm biased towards JetPlate, I am. The shop I work for is looking to upgrade to a newer "entry level" CTP setup (which the JetPlate and Glunz & Jensen models both fall into). I've had a opportunity to tour the JetPlate facility and it doesn't look to me that they are going anywhere anytime soon. If anything they're expanding to service more of the globe. I would suggest calling both JetPlate and G&J and asking for demo plates from both and compare them side by side..

I am not sure how your tour of the facility went, but Jetplate filed for Chapter 11 on 1st December 2008... see this link

JETPLATE SYSTEMS, LLC. files for Chp 11 Bankruptcy, information provided by TrollerBk.com

But, back to your question:- what makes one model different/better than the other.

Well, I guess this is a lttle to do with personal preferences, they do work quite differently....

The Jetplate uses a chemistry based system and uses a processor, light sensitive plates, a special ink (PlateMarker), Develope, Pre-Bake solution and gum. How it works: Well you basically use an inkjet printer to jet a saline (salt based) ink , onto a Negative working plate (it uses an Epson printer modified with loads of UV covers and a Kodak Craftsman plate - BUT only the Kodak craftsmand plate, no other one works), then after imaging the plate (its still wet and the image can be smudged at this point), you put it through a large processor, which first dries the image then develops it, applies Prebake solution then bakes it.
Once imaged the plates work well on press and use the normal inks and founts.

The Jetplate system works, no question, but you will find a number of posts here that have had issues with the processing part as its quite a fine tollerance. And there are other who will be wanting to not only eradicate this inconsistency, but move away from chemicals all together. As such the Glunz & Jensen system is totally diffeent.

The Glunz & Jensen system:

It does use inkjet, but that is where the similarity stops.

It is chemistry free, you just need the plates and their ink (Liquid DOT).
It works in daylight, and creates dry images you can't smudge.

Glunz & Jensen , iCtP systems take a plate which looks blank (but has a protective gum like coating to prevent it from aging, made under license for them by both Agfa and an unnamed supplier - can't tell who the second one is yet), then using the inkjet printer ADD the Liquid Dot image (which is basically and inkjettable DIAZO), like most inkjet CTP systems the iCtP uses Epson Technology but unlike the others, Glunz & Jensen systems are the only inkjet CTP systems approved by Epson, and Epson actually modify their firmware so that it works properly.

After inkjetting the plate with the diazo image, the image comes out dry you can't damage it. You could put it on press right then, but run length would be restricted... so you then cure the image onto the plate using the integrated finishing unit which Glunz & Jensen mount under the main imaging engine (to reduce foot print). This uses standard halogen bulbs like you get at the hardware store (so not special heat elements), to bake the image into the grain of the metal plate, after this it is automatically gummed. The plate will do 50,000 + impressions.
http://printplanet.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
The Glunz and Jensen system is aimed to be green, so its chemical free, BUT it is also low power, and reclycling. It recycles the gum in the automated gumming station, and uses very little power.

I agree with the other comments, get plates from the G&J dealer and try them back to back against other systems. G&J is currently offering funding support for small dealers, so you can get their systems over 10 months Interest free credit, or on nothing to pay for 3 months then $200 a week for 36 months. I have also heard of plate spend deals where they add a premium to the plate price and you get the system for next to nothing paying back with your plate spend (although this normally works out to more than financing it yourself!)

Finally Glunz & Jensen is worldwide, known normally from supplying the plate processors for high end CTP systems from Heidelberg, Agfa, Fuji, SLP and Kodak. The build quality is fairly bomb proof, and they offer remote support for all RIP related issues, and can monitor the system through the web to help users. As a result, they claim to have sold circa 285 systems in the last year.

I also, hear a rumour that they have introduced a Jetplate upgrade package, depending upon the model.