Has Anyone Sued Their Digital Press Manufacturer for Downtime?

[X33]

X33 I personally don't think it's asking too much for a vendor to have a representative at least show some concern with regards to others issues. I will also be the first to say that many issues are brought on by the operators or environment, not necessarily the equipment. As a customer it feels like we are left hanging to dry all too often!

I agree with you. Vendors still have the responsibility to service the equipment on-time and take ownership of certain issues.

Someone else is mentioning how this new economic environment is changing how companies are serving their customers. I think in 2010, there will be a very positive turnaround in many industries. These days, it's good to remember that keeping customers is as important as getting new ones.

I can tell you that Xerox has put together a plan to make this happen in 2010, but it won't happen in one day. You, Xerox customers, will probably start seeing some results soon and hopefully your experience with Xerox sales and service will be better than ever. I really hope and expect so.

[idadunit]

Getting back to the original point. Has anybody got a contract with their supplier that actualy states they will fix it? Most contracts I have seen only make mention of "reasonable attempts to fix"

Also dont get caught when working out down time. If you work 12 hours a day you will probably find your contract is only for standard business hours.

[Mark H]

I'm hearing 2 different, distinct issues in this thread - first is a buyer that purchased the wrong machine for what they wanted to accomplish; so it physically CAN'T do what they need it to, no matter how good the service. The second is a supplier who doesn't have the personnel or expertise to maintain the equipment they've sold and rather than admit to that shortcoming ignore their customer in the hopes the problem will go away.

The first problem can be solved easily through information and research. Test running machines before you commit, and really understanding your business and communicating that to the salesman. I walk every vendor through my shop, front office through back production; discuss what we do now, plans for the future, and our expected pricing structure. With this information I expect them to recommend what I need to accomplish the job - NOT what they need to sell or what gives them the biggest margin. Those types of guys - the ones who are looking for a quick, one time sale - see the door very quickly.

The second issue is a tougher nut to crack, especially when you're talking about a relatively new piece of equipment. As others have said, it takes time for technicians to get to know the equipment, and even for manufacturers to understand what goes wrong and how to properly fix it. Still, given all the right information, if the technicians aren't worth a darned you're seemingly stuck. The key here is in communication - the service company wants your business, they want to keep servicing your account. Use that and keep moving your issues up their chain. If you get to the top and there's no satisfaction, talk to the manufacturer about your issue. They'll know the technicians in your area that work that equipment, and are good at it. See if your service firm can "borrow" the experienced tech to come in and fix your rig and show their tech how to do it. Shame is a powerful motivator.

Half of any acquisition is picking the right piece of hardware, the other half having the right service and support available.

Mark H

[LodAssoc]

I have posted many thing on different threads throughout this site about my dealings wil Xerox, and how bad things are with them.

For those of you who haven't seen any of them, let me give you a quick run-down.

I had been running a Xerox DC5000. I ran it for 2 years, put about 2mm clicks on it. Quality started to go, things started to not work correctly, I sat down for 8 straight business days unable to run a single job. In the mean time we lost a client, and many, many jobs. Luckily we have partners throughout the industry in our area and were able to get work done. But, that all took money out of our shop. Anyway, they worked on it for weeks unable to fix it.

We ended ud "upgrading" to this wonderful new peice of equipment...the Xerox DC7002. It is the new fangled 7000, with low gloss toner and an in-line spectrophotometer. (Both are wonderful by the way.) We had it installed on Nov. 11. I ran the machine without noticing anything wrong with it for about 20k. Then i started to notice that I had a severe banding issue, and sheet to sheet color inconsistency. They worked on this for many weeks, actually 2 months, to no avail. Since they were unable to fix it, we used our total satisfation guaruntee, and got a new one in to replace the usless one.

My new 7002 was installed on Feb. 18. After not taking software, or being able to auto-duplex, they finally got this one working on the 22nd. I ran for about 5k and then noticed the same issues as the first one: extreme banding and sheet to sheet color issues. Samples were printed and sent to feild engineering in Rochester, NY. They decided that we need to replace the black developer housing, and black drum. That service was done today, and there is no change.

Aside from the machine not working, Xerox is breaking the contract by not responding to a service call within an hour, and not coming in within the 4 hours they guaruntee. We are also having billing issue. And, they don't have this machine written off as installed yet, b/c it is not working correctly. Because of that i'm not able to order parts or supplies, or call for service. I have to track down the service manager to get a call in.

We have lost money, clients, jobs, etc. Not to mention downtime. Every minute i'm down, i'm losing money, and I need some help to recoop some of it. I keep detailed records of service, and parts and supplies. Is there a lawyer out tere willing to help us?Or at least draft a letter to let Xerox know that we are serious about getting something back.

Also, are there any other owners fed up with Xerox, that would be interested in going me in an attempt to get back what we have lost?

[UK Printer]

"Also, are there any other owners fed up with Xerox, that would be interested in going me in an attempt to get back what we have lost? "

We used to run some Xerox kit, it was our only production machine and was a pain in the backside, engineers out everyday, useless absolutely useless.

We got stiched up with a very dodgy contract. All in all Xerox was a very painful lesson to learn. They cost our business thousands (£15K per month to be exact) and believe me, we couldn't afford that.

I would strongly advise anyone with a grievance to make themselves heard at all the trade shows, get yourself along to the manfucturers stands, and shame them, why not print some leaflets showing how 'good' their presses are!

This may not settle the issue, but beieve me, it'll make you feel better. Don't waste time trying to pursue these companies through the courts, their legal teams can easlily turn your lights out.

Best advice, walk away, learn a lesson (in our case, don't touch Xerox with a barge pole).

Since we gave them the heave ho, we moved into short run tradtional litho, quality is great, customers love it and we can rely on our press producing great results, day in, day out.

[UberTech]

Hind sight is 20/20 and the last thing you want to do is hear from another vendor, but manufacturers are happy to show what the machine can do but when it comes to contract time it's probably good to go for a Service Level Agreement, within which you stipulate how much the manufacturer will pay you for down time. Don't talk response time, talk return to service time. For example, if this thing isn't running within 3 hours of failing then calculate the losses from then on and they pay you that. Should the same fault reoccur within 24hrs then the tech stays on site until the production run is complete. If they believe in their product they can stand behind a commitment like that. If they refuse, don't buy it.

Todays TLA's SLA and RTS.

[LoneGoose]

Our reps came to us once to show us samples printed off the M700 NexPress (don't know why because we already have a 2100 classic), anyway, the prints looked great. Just so happened that the technician had copies of these PDFs, so we printed them off on our press...

Our press was streaking quite badly at the time, but not with these samples! They looked fantastic - better than the new M700's!

The vendors' sample / test / showcase files are designed not to streak - full of rich textures and colours that run easy on press. Their files are useless for testing the machine - they're engineered to print well under any condition; that's why you should, indeed, bring your own files along to any demonstration - like UK Printer says.

[einstein999]

as a new member I have noticed a lack of many "vendors" jumping in on a service issue. I can say that most of the "copier business" has gone the way of corporate America, and rid themselves of qualified sales staff and technicians in the effort to reduce cost. The customer takes the losses every time on this proposition. As a service employee, I am happy to say that I work for a company that goes against the flow, and we spend plenty of money making things right, even if it is not a "profitable" solution for us. In the rare case we can't fix something after 1 or 2 part orders (usually within 1-4 days total), we send out a replacement unit (within days of saying we will, not weeks - months), and bring the offending unit into the shop and run jobs on it until it works 100%. Does this cost us money? Heck yea, but no one ever comes in behind us and takes over our contracts, its about service, and we know it. Another dirty secret of "copier repair" is most techs are paid on how few parts they can use, not us, we bonus them on how many clicks it turns before we have to service it again. We refer to our customers as partners, and see them as a residual source of income, we want new business, but not at the sacrifice of existing business. After proofing this its almost a sale pitch, but I guess you could say I am proud of the level of service our company provides.

[Mark]

We "fired" the company that sold us our digital machine and was our service and supply.
Didn't sue, but charged them for our down time on a big project that they screwed up toner delivery and service call.
We have since moved on to another company to service and supply the machine.

[ondemandbindery]

I myself am looking at some digital options and I am going to start a new thread to hopefully answer something. And it will pertain to this topic.

John Weaver