FSC certification

[oxburger]

It's a frigging scam that you are all getting sucked into, but if that makes you all "feel good", it's your money.

I agree. It's a complete waste of time and resources. They're saving trees (supposedly), but what about the FSC conference in Cape Town? How much jet fuel was used in getting the delegates there? If they were truly concerned about the environment, they would have had their conference via teleconference. But wait, what's this you say? The computers and phones we're using come from petroleum based plastics and copper and other metals that must be mined....Oh gosh, what will we do? FRET FRET FRET.......

Let's face it, we've messed up this planet beyond repair. You can be sure I'll continue to recycle and use more efficient vehicles to do my part, but do I really think it'll make a difference? Not really.

[jbbbarr]

I have been in several of the so called FSC certified print shops in the Austin/San Antonio area and not would actually meet their criteria. It seems to be just a purchased logo. I have even worked in a shop that printed that stupid logo on everything one particular customer (regular stock) did just to retain them. It is very much a joke when it comes to enforcement or auditing, seems the only serious part is the fee

[Green Printer]

There are 2721 certificates in the USA.
The Forest Stewardship Council :: Certified Companies :: Chain of Custody Companies

At $4,000 per pop thats $10,884,000.00 and that is low balling the certification cost.

Worldwide there are 11,847 certificates.

Where and who did all that money go to.?

What is the money collected used for?

http://www.fsc.org/fileadmin/web-dat...on_-_FINAL.pdf

[Helene]

More info here

https://www.sgppartnership.org/

[doubting_thomas]

I'd be interested to hear from either a FSC representative or a
SCS member on this discussion. I'm wondering about the integrity
of their audits, the transparency of their business practices and
the value one actually gets when paying for usage rights of
their logo. I question their basic honesty at this point.

[Craig]

I'd be interested on how they validate the charges and bull$hit hoops you need to jump through. Don't get me wrong, the idea of doing the right thing for both the environment and our bottom lines is great. But look at the carbon foot print I'll leave when I have to open my wallet and pull out the cash printed at the mint. All those VOC's!

[mattf]

I'd be interested to hear from either a FSC representative or a
SCS member on this discussion. I'm wondering about the integrity
of their audits, the transparency of their business practices and
the value one actually gets when paying for usage rights of
their logo. I question their basic honesty at this point.

Or better yet, lets go after all 3 of the most popular certifications. FSC, SFI and PEFC.

Or better yet, go after anyone.

Lets go after Green-e. They must not know what they are doing.

Or maybe go after ISO, or TCF, or ECF, or maybe CN, or how about Green Seal. Even better, Go after Tree Free, they use cotton instead of wood pulp that must be even worse for the environment!

Or better yet, lets go after EU Flower because they don't take it far enough.

Or even better, go after the human race because they are always wrong!

/rant

[doubting_thomas]

The only certification I've mentioned is the FSC Certification
because that's the only one that I've been through the
process with. If you have an issue with the idea that an
internal audit for that specific certification shouldn't carry
the same weight as an audit done by a third party, or
a FSC/SCS auditor, then perhaps that should be the
subject of your rant.

If you're directing that at me, I'd be curious at what point
this thread became so personal to you. I don't see any
place that I specifically attacked you, or any of the other
certifications you listed.

[Craig]

doubting,
This is how the "tree huggers" get when you point out the obvious. It hurts their feelings and they can only react but trying to be-little you. Just like Al Gore and global warming. God forbid you ask FSC to do what they are asking of you!

[mattf]

doubting,
This is how the "tree huggers" get when you point out the obvious. It hurts their feelings and they can only react but trying to be-little you. Just like Al Gore and global warming. God forbid you ask FSC to do what they are asking of you!

Tree Hugger? If only I was, then I'd be able to justify what I'm doing was actually going to save the planet!

My rant wasn't meant to be a defense against some attack or a ignorant denial of other peoples point of view on the subject. It was meant to be a sarcastic point on the whole discussion. Guess that got lost in the rant :P

Thomas, it sucks that your certification process wasn't as complete as most of the companies I have been in contact with. It also sucks that there is negative remarks as regards to the whole agency itself. The whole idea of being a part of a process that manages forests effectively is an idea I know many would get on board with.

Yes paper companies have had a sustainable mindset for many years. For every tree they cut down they've always planted the same or even more. The same goes for printers, we try to use less energy not because we wanted to save the earth but it was cost effective. This includes more efficient lighting, new presses with better energy usage and so on.

Yes FSC has had a bad reputation in regards to their services. A lot of this is basically a PR scheme, but in the end it is based off of specific things. People will ask:

1) How do we know we are managing the forests?
2) How do we know we are printing on sustainable paper?
3) How do we know where the paper came from?
4) How can we prove that all this information is correct?

The chain of custody certification for printers is just one step in the whole process. Whether its FSC or SFI or PEFC doesn't matter. This is a joint effort in order for the end users to track where their products came from, all the way to the forest. This will help customers to insure they know if the forest has practices that are sustainable or not. Granted, we know as the industry itself there are such practices in place, but the documentation of this is key in order to prove it.

And that is all it comes down to. If you don't believe its working then shout about it, ask questions and get some discussion going about how to make it better. Or better yet, create your own certification process on how you would handle it. With that then you could compete with the other big certifications and in the end people would see you have a better system and use your system.

Saying it sucks and its a scam doesn't help at all because all your doing is complaining and not doing anything about it. I at least have been trying these past few months to learn each certification as much as I can to get a better idea of whats going on and what system they have in place for this certification. My own initiative has helped me to understand it better, and maybe I'll come up with a bright idea of creating a better system for them to use. That idea could make life for everyone easier while still keeping the certification process sound.

Who knows, at least I try to be proactive about it all.