Opinions on Van Son Ink

[NGA]

Question for you all, we have been a long time user of Braden Supften 4C EPTS Ink in our heidelberg. we back it up with Alcohol and Prisco 3451 fountain solution. We have have been using this ink for 15+ years and our sales reps treats us very good. As you all you in our every changes industry pricing is getting immense pressure and i'm always looking for ways to cut cost without quality. Our Fuji Vendor who is a 20+ year sales rep to us, just told me they started carring Van son Vs3 series process ink and sent some in for me to try. he wants me to back it our with Pressmax 1104 fountain solution. I have always VERY hesitant about messing with our chemistry but the van son ink it $3-$4 per # cheaper, but my rule of thumb is, is that its always cheaper for a reason, anyone have experience with this series of van son ink?? thanks in advance for all your input.

[RKS]

We were a Toyo house until almost 3 years ago. Didn't think we'd ever switch, but we were installing some new presses and we were seeing inconsistencies with ink/water balance and always chasing color. The pressman described it as: "Riding The Wild Bull". We then tested: Two other series of inks of Toyo, Superior Ink and Kohl Madden. We also tested 8 different blankets & 3 different fountain solutions & alcohol substitutes. The pressmen, one of which had been a demonstrator for Komori, remarked that they had never seen an ink that was so easy to hold color balance, no piling and several other good running characteristics. We also going to be installing an automated dispensing/blending system for Pantone inks. VanSon was the only vendor interested in really fine-tuning their formulas, so that all the mixes very accurately matched the swatch books. We were also installing a long perfector press and much of our work is ad agency/designer work and we needed to be able to match on both sides of the sheet, with no chalking on the downside. VanSon, brought people in and developed a set of ink for us, that was fantastic.

So, I would definately give them a chance.

[D Ink Man]

The V3 ink is a weak color strength process series. You will have more problems on medium to heavier coverage forms, particularly drying. The V3 being slower drying, more stay open, could be a problem if you are use to a more oxidative type of ink like you are using. If it ain't broke, I would not fix it. Do not forget the service aspect also.

[RKS]

I would strongly disagree with the D Ink Man. Toyo is a high strength process series and when we did side by side tests, we used about 2% more ink. Our total savings the first full year in use was over $65,000. If it was an inferior product we wouldn't be able to win the most Best of Category awards for our PIA region & Benny's from the national competition. It's just like anything else, it's a tool in making the final product and it's how you use it.

[gordo]

To RKS,

Are you using FM screening?

thx, gordon p

[RKS]

We use both FM (Taffeta) & 250 Line Co-Res. We have separate profiles/curves on uncoated & coated for both types of screening.

[Asures]

NGA,

I've seen the Vanson VS3 series in action. It certainly isn't a bad ink but nor is it the "Top Notch" either. I wasn't impressed by the color gamut when further examined on test sheets printed.

Something to take into consideration when you buy ink from a "Graphic Arts Supply House" is that they have no ability to adjust, formulate, or manipulate those inks in event something goes south. Sure, test the inks for yourself but you should really keep that in mind.

You get what you pay for..

Aaron Sures
Gracol 7 Expert
Pressroom Specialist
Gans Ink & Supply Company
(323) 867-3677 Direct Cellular
Printing Ink, Eco Friendly Inks, Sustainable Inks, Environmentally Friendly Inks, Gans Ink Home

[RKS]

In most cases I'd agree with Aaron, but in respect to the Fuji/VanSon arrangement, he is wrong. VanSon's own pressroom reps along with Fuji's reps work right with you. They will develop whatever it takes to adjust, formulate or manipulate the inks. They developed new formulas, adjusted existing formulas for us and brought in their specialists from all over the country to help us be successful. Any of their personnel, including right up to the President of the company is just a phone-call away. They believe in the old-fashioned way of not only being a supplier, they preach and deliver that they are a part of your team.

Is VS3 a perfect ink, No. No ink is perfect, but is it an excellent ink and does it produce top award winning work. YES!

[gordo]

[SNIP]
Something to take into consideration when you buy ink from a "Graphic Arts Supply House" is that they have no ability to adjust, formulate, or manipulate those inks in event something goes south. Sure, test the inks for yourself but you should really keep that in mind.
You get what you pay for..

Aaron, my understanding is that a printer that grosses about $10 million or more, buys enough ink to allow the ink manufacturer to put one of their own ink specialists onsite in the print shop to adjust, formulate, etc. the inks as required.
Is that correct? If not, what shop size would you consider the smallest that would permit an onsite ink specialist.

best, gordon p

[D Ink Man]

Asures has it correct. Van Son does not engage in customizing ink series to fit the needs of a printer. Same is true for Fuji and all the other Supply Houses that want to bundle their wares. It is all sales with little regard to the technical aspect. They do however provide some of the best lip service available. Stay with a company that manufactures their offerings. Gans and Braden do this and are experts at it. Don't worsen your problems with these sideshow middlemen. If you look at price only, you will lose in the long haul. Truth.