Best Folder with Scorer for my situation

[raminmd]

Hi all,

We don't really do a ton of folding but we do a fair amount. Majority of our stuff is folding 12 x 9 - 80# Gloss Cover sheet into a 6 x 9. We fold about 25,000 to 30,000 of these a month (not one job but a number of jobs). We also do a fair amount of tri-fold jobs (8.5 x 11 text/cover weight paper into #10) and some bi-fold jobs (11 x 17 cover stock folded in half).

Currently, we print everything in house and then get all our scoring and folding done outside (for jobs that require scoring). We have a couple of friction feed desktop folders but they are not very easy to use for a lot of folding and I don't have a scoring solution anyway for most of my jobs.

I really want to get a decent machine for my use internally. I don't need any big floor model equipment (like a Baum 2020 etc.) They are just out of my price range and we don't need something that heavy duty.

When I look at used equipment available, I see the following at decent prices (2k to 5k).

MBO T49
MBM 1400
Rosback 220 (scoring unit only). I will still have to use my desktop folder once it is scored.

What would be the best option for me? Will any of the above units work. I am not even sure if I can score on the t49 or 1400. Am I being even realistic about scoring/folding them in house with a 5k budget. Ideally, I would like to get a unit or a couple of units (if scoring and folding separately) that are air-fed and can handle my jobs easily.

Thanks.

[Happyprinter]

Looks like you've done a little research on machines available. Remember, it's a buyers market right now and if you search you can pickup a nice floor model for next to nothing. There are alot of Rosback 220's available for a very good rate. Keep your eyes open for shops that are closing, auctions or local equipment dealers. Another shop I know of just picked up a Baum floor model for $2500.oo and believe it or not it runs great. So dont be in a hurry and get something that you will be happy with. There are alot of used equipment dealers all across the country, make some calls. You'll be suprised at whats available.

[raminmd]

Thanks for the reply. I do need to get something in my shop soon as the current system of sending everything out does result in delays for us. I should have mentioned that all our printing is digital. Ideally a Morgana digifold is a great solution but the price is just ridiculous. Are you aware of any affordable scoring/folding solutions for digital print? While the Rosback is adequate (the shop we send everything to uses a Rosback 220), it is still not perfect as paper still cracks.

[Craig]

We looked at a Morgana 5000 and a Baum 2020, and went with the Baum, added a couple of Ultimate Scores and are happy as clams. Ours was new, but I'm sure you can find a used folder with an 8 page and adjustable slitter shafts and do the same thing. The floor folder will be 10 times more productive too.

[ondemandbindery]

Look for a T-49. This a MBO workhorse. I use the Technifold scoring units and have had minimal problems with scoring anything. A machine like this should open your market up. In fact, the T-49 I have just collects dust. It is a beautiful machine and if you are interested in one shoot me an email. Whatever you do, I would avoid a tabletop as that will limit some of the projects you can process.

Good luck,
John Weaver

[GWSALES]

Unfortunately there is no small folder that will do a good job scoring. Unless you can make room for a baum 18" or 20" folder and use the Technifold device you need an offline solution. If you are printing digitaly this explains why the Rosback 220 does a poor job and your stock is cracking. A rotary score wheel plows through your stock and toner will crack using this proccess, offset inks are applied wet and penetrate the paper almost eleminating cracking. What you would need is a Creaser with a matrix die. These machines retail in the 8k-21k range depending on speeds and capabilties. Check out the Graphic Whizard Graphic Whizard - Products - Creasing/Impact Scoring Systems - CreaseMaster PLUS or the Morgana autocreaser.

[Alex@Challenge]

Something else to consider when you try to bring this work in-house: who is going to set-up and run your jobs? The MBO folder is a great machine (as long as it is in good condition), but if you don't have a competent operator, you will fight it more than you know! Folding is an art - that's why good folder operators (or set-up people) make the money they do. That being said - what you are trying to do is very simple. There are multiple ways to do what you're doing, but you have to sit and evaluate what the costs are doing it in-house vs. sending it to someone who knows what they're doing.

If you go the used folder route, I HIGHLY suggest you get it locally AND get full training AND they are authorized/trained to support your machine. If not, you're throwing away $5,000 plus all the waste created by your investment.

[Craig]

You'll do yourself an injustice if you don't look at the Ultimate Score from D&R Bindery. I put it head to head with the tri-creaser and it beat it hands down with the output from our DC8000AP folding both with the grain and cross grain on our Baum 2020. They even flew in to prove to me that it wasn't some sort of creasing voodoo!

[raminmd]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I do have a very good operator on staff. He has more than 16 years experience in running a lot of print equipment including MBO and Baum folders. I am leaning more and more towards getting either a Baum or MBO (used ) with an Ultimate Score. John (ondemandbindery), I sent you a PM about your T-49. Can you please respond?

Thanks.

[ondemandbindery]

You'll do yourself an injustice if you don't look at the Ultimate Score from D&R Bindery. I put it head to head with the tri-creaser and it beat it hands down with the output from our DC8000AP folding both with the grain and cross grain on our Baum 2020. They even flew in to prove to me that it wasn't some sort of creasing voodoo!

I would be curious as to how a D&R works against the Technifold stuff. I am thinking about getting a couple for my 35mm shaft folders. I have real good succes with Technifold stuff but I am always interested in something better. As for buying a used folder, it is absolutely a buyers market out there. I have seen a T-49 with a knife fold attachment. What a great tool to have in your Arsenal. I totally agree with having the experience on the machine but if you have someone who has the skill that is the major battle to all this. Try to locate a local service rep and try to feel them out. If you like your local service rep and he specializes in one machine, find out what it is and put that into consideration. But as for buying new, well I have opinions about that. As much as the profit margins have decreased in our market I sometimes feel you can avoid a hefty payout for a new machine and buy used. This is certainly a whole different topic but there is no way I could stomach much less afford a new payment. And don't let someone convince you that some touch screen setup will eliminate problems. Give me a good pilefed against a horizon per say and for short run basic folding I will put that Horizon down and real quick. Good luck and let me know if you get a machine with 30mm shafts. I may have some stuff of interest to you.