tired of brokering envelopes-is Xante the answer

[ondemandbindery]

Hi all. The envelope seems to be the great barrier for the digital market. I have been brokering printing for the last 4 months since the Bindery side of my business has really fallen off and quite honestly I need a resolution for printing simple 2 color envelopes. I have tried to read as much info as I can find about the Xante and the PSI units but there seems to be a recurring theme that these machines are not profitable. I have absolutely no interest in offset as I consider it Analog Printing and it is just not the vision of where I want to go. My run lengths are in the 2500-5000 range and can range from 1 to 3 color so this work is truly cookie cutter basic stationary work. Any input, ideas, or experience would be greatly appreciated and thank you ahead of time.

[Al Ferrari]

Can you be more specific as to why these machines are said to be not profitable? Why is it not a simple matter of adjusting the selling price?

Historically printing on folded stock has always been a challenge for printers equipped with presses intended for printing on flat sheets. Dedicated specialty machines on the other hand are extremely productive.

Al

[Cory Smith]

not super familiar with the Xante machine, but I'd imagine your run lengths would be on the high side for the xante machine.

I know you don't want to print offset, but you run lengths might still require a traditional offset process.

[ondemandbindery]

Thanks for the replys. If you try to filter through information about the laser printers which try to do envelopes then there just seems to be a recurring theme as to the profitability of these machines. Part of what I read into is the initial cost but if the ROI is justified then 20k is not that big of an investment in the grand scheme of things. As for traditional offset, it is of no interest to me. I will leave that battle to the people who have that equipment in place. My workflow in the Bindery business is leaning more towards digital so I say the handwriting is on the wall. I am starting to work on a project which will require variable data on envelopes so I need to go digital machine. As a side note, I contacted PSI this week. The person whom I spoke with was suppose to send me some email with information but I have yet to receive it. Just another case of a Vendor taking their own sweet time at the expense of someone else but that would be a whole different topic. The one thing I learned about the PSI is it does have color control unlike the XANTE so that is a big factor in my opinion but atleast XANTE did send me literature.

[Keith]

Crack! Pop! (That's the sound of my knuckles cracking as I prepare to type)

I have an Ilumina (not the Envelope model) and it does fantastic on envelopes- self seal, linen, laid, even a 9x12 photo on a 10x13 envelope. In another thread, I think someone asked about addressing on preprinted UV coated post cards. I do! And if I had the Envelope Press (Xante calls it the media feeder) it would make those post cards a hell of a lot easier! I agree with Corey, 5000 would probably be pushing it but if it's got variable info, there is no limit. They advertise 1.5 cents per impression but I think 2-3 cents is more realistic because anything heavier than 20lb bond is harder on your drums. So, 5000 full color envelopes at .03 cents would cost $175 + machine + labor + envelopes. And if they are VDP you can tack on a premium and other set-up charges. I don't know what your market is or your overhead, but Vistaprint wants to charge $719.99 for 5000. I know I can beat that AND keep a good margin.

Speaking of costs, Xante is still holding the price at $14,999. Wait till the end of the month for some bargaining leverage. Try contacting this dealer- Xante Laser Printers - Xante Color Printers - The Richardson Company
His name is George and is very nice and helpful. I buy all my consumables from him and he offers free tech support when you buy from him. If it wasn't for him, I would have thrown my Ilumina out the damn window! AND he saves me money on the consumables. Trust me when I say this- he is not a typical dealer/sales rep. He won't paint a rosy picture and tell you the Ilumina makes sandwiches too. Don't get me wrong, he does stand behind his products.

As for color control, the Ilumina does very well at automatic calibration. As long as you print from a smart program (not Reader) and have your color profiles set, you'll have few problems. And keep in mind, some PMS colors are harder to build than others. But if that is not enough, Xante has their OpenRIP Symphony. I have no experience with it but I have heard a lot of good about it. In fact, I'm considering purchasing it along with a new machine. Damn, I sound like I work for Xante...

In conclusion, I do not work for or represent Xante. Ondemandbindery, If you'd like, it would be my pleasure to talk to you and pass on my experiences with the Ilumina I've had for three years.

I am tired of typing,
Keith

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

mmmm a sandwich, it's nice to hear there are still companies out there that put in some extra effort to help the customer. Good review Keith, i think others will agree that at times they do want to throw the Xante out the window, but when you have good help available, it has a nice fit in the market.

[ondemandbindery]

Thanks for the replys. What I am initially looking for is a way to not rely on another printer for envelopes. For what I am trying to do right now I am using a IBM 1567 infoprint but need some type of envelope processing needs. Somewhere around Q4 of this year is when I hope to have a better understanding of just how I am going to mix variable data into the market I am going after. If I can produce simple #10 bond envelopes and make a marginal profit after the expense of purchasing one of these, then for me it will be justified. As my user name shows, I am by trade a finishing house but since what I am set up to do appears to be pretty volatile and will be from here on out, I need to diversify and the reality is Digital is kicking right along. What about the feeder issues with the XANTE? The PSI feeds like a typical friction feeder attachment but I like the idea of the XANTE if the uneven stacks do not throw it a major curve ball.

[padraig]

I have had the Ilumina for a little over a year now. I don't have the one with the envelope feeder and
I have run jobs up to 2500 in run length, some 4 color and others, 2 color. It's a large pain in the butt
to feed 25 or 30 at a time, but the quality is there for short runs.
My biggest issue with Xante is the cost of consumables (toner and drums). I had conversations with Xante reps about this problem and they didn't want to talk about it. I have found alternate sources of both toner and drums and the price is a lot less than Xante charges. My volume of business right now doesn't justify investing in another digital printer.
I do have some literature from PSI and have talked briefly with a rep, but no decisions yet.
I did have one customer reject business cards I ran on the Ilimina because I couldn't get the color density dark enough but that's the only job I had a problem with.
I wish you a lot of luck.

[John A]

What about letterhead? Don't customers sometimes ask for letterhead with their envelopes?

What can an all digital shop do for letterhead printing (that can be run through a laser printer.)

[Keith]

I print letterhead on my Ilumina. I have had only one problem. On the second run of LH (letterhead) I did for a customer they complained about streaking. I picked up the LH brought them back to my shop and sent them throught the Ilumina again with no issue....until I cranked up the heat. Remember, on the first order, they had no problems sending them through their machine. They were using an HP I think. I heard they run kinda hot. And I also heard that sometimes when fusers fail, they can get stuck on a tempature setting. So, they could have been running envelopes or cardstock and the fuser may have decided to fail...or they simply didn't change the setting before they printed on the LH. Since that one incident, I have not had any other problem. But then again, I simply don't do a whole lot of letterhead. Most of my customers have their own file or they ask me to set one up for them OR I send it out for lithography.

That concludes this episode of What a Digital Shop Does. We do it anyway! And if they don't like it we kick dirt at them and tell 'em "We can go to offset but you'll have to get 20,000 of them! Ha! Ha! Ha!"

(That last paragraph is a joke)

Keith